How many companies will have to close?

If I tell you I'm lying. What can happen is very uncertain – but many.

The estimation is 400,000 unemployed people, will it fall short?

We calculate that it will be more than that, because they only calculate the formal sector. We have to include the independent and informal ones.

Does the economic plan exist?

We don't know. We are blind. We have no idea what the plan is.

Why do you think they don't disclose it?

I trust it is because they want to be safe. Because it would be very sad to think that there is no plan.

What should the State cut funds from?

Now more than ever, they should be more restrained with public spending. Travel, hiring and reducing the payroll will have to be suspended. Today the sacrifices are being made only by the private sector. The government has continued to show solidarity, but with its officials.

How do you evaluate the health part?

It played a basic role in the beginning. But it lacked traceability and isolated people on time. The consequence is what we see now. They have to correct the way of executing the plans and be more open to considerations that lead us to reduce infections more effectively.

And, the economic part?

Tragic. Health had to be prioritized, but it should have had a balance. The consequence would not have been as bad as what we will experience. We will have to align ourselves ... enough political colors, ideologies and particular interests.

Is the economic part carried by Health or the health part is carried by the Economy?

The economic part is carried by Health. And while that continues to happen, we will continue to be confined and with a deteriorating economy. Let everyone play their role. We have made proposals, but we do not know if they have come to fruition. The eight tables that the government created initially never met. Or, at least, they never called us.

Tripartite table. Will it mean something?

I don't think so, because there is no consensus, and apparently they don't want to build. So the decision will have to be made by the government – and that is dangerous.

The Insurance crisis is compounded by Covid-19. What would be your proposal?

Since they haven't called us and it seems they never will, we will make our own table to create solutions.

What is the government not understanding in this crisis?

That they are not alone. That in the guilds there is the potential and energy to do sensible and viable things. They must put forth the idea that consulting is co-governing. When will they understand that in all the productive sectors there are valuable professionals who could contribute?

And, the entrepreneurs?

We have to put down private interests for the common good. Let's keep trying to contribute. In the end, the responsibility for the economy and the generation of jobs falls on us [entrepreneurs].

Is the government or the businessmen more corrupt?

In both there are corrupt and good.

How do you reactivate a company with depressed consumption and people without money?

With much effort and desire. I don't know how, but giving up is not an option.

"It will be useless to be healthy, if we are going to be broke." Agree?

I wouldn't say it like that. Health is not just the absence of disease, but having everything we need to live.

How would you liberate the country?

I would not do it by blocks but by regions. The blocks are too short for national needs. The regions that are very productive and have almost no contagion, why not allow them to open and produce? The majority of infections are in very specific areas. Hunger will be the other pandemic ...

Government. Lack of leadership, clarity or communication?

I think it lacks a little of all three.

The age of your opponent, strength or weakness?

I highly respect his struggles, his experience and his career, but there is a new story to write.

If you weren't running, would you vote for your opponent?

No. He wouldn't vote for me either, I think.

His specific objective, if he wins the Apede presidency?

Work for internal cohesion and be a union capable of saying what other unions do not dare to say.

A self-criticism of Apede?

We must improve administrative systems to have better communication with our members.

How do you respond to those who say that Apede is a theoretical group?

Yes, we are a group of thought, but we put proposals on the table.

Pending tasks of democracy?

Institutionality, respect for free enterprise and citizen rights.